Justin Blaney sits down with Wayne Cordeiro from New Hope Oahu to discover what lessons Wayne learned while pulling through a 3 1/2 year recovery from major burn out. Learn how the music of ministry is made beautiful through the rests as much as the notes and find out what Wayne says is the single most important piece of advice he can offer others serving in the ministry.

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Transcript

Justin: Hi, Wayne. Thank you for being on the show.
Wayne: Absolutely.
Justin: So you wrote a book called Leading on Empty and in this book you described a time when you had a total breakdown. Can you tell me about the story?

Wayne: I was jogging before I was going to speak at a conference in California and I found myself sitting on a curb crying, just convulsively crying, and I remember putting my hands in front of me like this, saying to myself “What in the world is happening?” At that point I knew something had broken on the inside, but I didn’t know how to get it fixed. That started me on the journey of trying to figure out what had been stalking me, what was stealing my energy.
Justin: What did you learn?
Wayne: Noah bin Shay??? says in his book, “It’s the space between the notes that makes the music.”
Justin: Hmm, that’s good.
Wayne: Pretty cool. And it’s okay when you are doing what I call legatos, its whole notes, its long notes. You can rest in between, don don don don, don don, don don. But when it’s the flight of the bumblebee, bzzzzzzzzzz, you have to stop (clap) intentionally. You don’t have built in rests, you have to stop intentionally and intentionally stay quiet for two measures, (heavy sigh) because you know that tomorrow it’s like this again, bzzzzzzz. So what I found out was before I burned out, I thought it was natural legatos and you just rest in between, but what started like this (rubbing hands together
Justin: Yeah.
Wayne: And I didn’t see the difference. I didn’t catch the change of pace and then all of a sudden, I just snapped. So now, I’m slowing down a little, but it’s not like long. The difference is I’ve slowed down a little, but then I have to intentionally, courageously, stop! People are saying “play. Oh, come on, we need to hear that”. (Laughing) Tomorrow! I just have to stop.
Justin: You have to learn to manage your time well as a pastor. Perhaps just say no like when someone asks you to do a video interview.
Wayne: (Laughing) Yeah, and when you say “no” you somewhat feel guilty because you think “it’s for Christ”, but you have to be able to live with a cadence and rhythm that’s sustainable.
Justin: You said that I think in the book that 33% of pastor’s families said that being a pastor is dangerous.

Wayne: Often, we unbalance our lives. We do that without realizing we are doing it. We sometimes sacrifice our family on the altar of ministry’s success. And, you have to constantly reinvent yourself back to the original calling which has family in balance, children, your own self, cause we always cut ourselves out first. You have to put that in. Sounds Self-ish, but it really is kingdom.

Justin: What are some practical tips that you can offer to pastors to put their life in balance?

Wayne: The first thing that I can share is “You know the cadence of your life better than anybody else. When it’s starting to get affected or the joy of doing ministry is diminishing or the joy of being married is diminishing, watch out. Because joy is like a barometer. Nehemiah 8:10 says “the joy of the Lord is your strength.” So watch your joy factor, your joy quotient. Otherwise you will continue to do ministry, but it’s not joyful anymore. You’re still married, but there is no joy in it. You’ve got to go see your kid at a soccer game, but you don’t enjoy it. That is the first sign that something is breaking on the inside that demands to be fixed and so stop, get it fixed.

Justin: You said that doing devotions as a pastor is one of the most important things that they can do. Doesn’t that seem like its kind of obvious or why did you put that in there?

Wayne: A lot of times that which is the most obvious that is the least practiced. Because we think it’s obvious, it’s done. It’s not. When I burnt out I wanted to jettison everything, I wanted to get out of the ministry. I didn’t want responsibility. I didn’t want to make decisions anymore. I just needed to get away from people, and, my marriage was on the edge of being in that category. Saying if it came down to that, I just need to get out. I just need to get away. I wanted to get rid of everything except one thing. I developed a discipline, a daily discipline of doing devotions, that I would read through the Bible and I’d journal. It’s called Life Journal and I’d kept it for 20-some years, about 26 years. So when I burned out, I let go of everything, in my heart anyway, except that one discipline. It’s like the foundational pillars upon which the hotel is built along the seashore. Let’s say a hurricane comes and all you see left are those pillars. Those for me, one of those, was doing daily devotions. It was through me, sitting before God, reading the Word, letting him speak to me that my healing and restoration began. That was the channel through which God brought wholeness and healing to me. I’m glad that was a discipline that I didn’t throw away or that it was too light that it was negotiable. No, that sustained me and helped me come back.

Justin: What is the number one piece of advice you can offer the pastors who might be watching?

Wayne: When I plant out churches, Justin, I don’t want these young leaders necessarily to become like me with my antics or idiosyncrasies or the way I speak, but I do want them to tap into the same source that I tap into. They can tap into the source that can help them to be restored and to resolve whatever problem including burnout, marital struggles, loss of vision. God is the great mentor of us for whatever we are going through.

Justin: So Daily Devotions that is it, the No. 1 piece of advice.

Wayne: That is the most important, I’d say. In fact, I didn’t say that. Jesus said that in Luke 10: 38-42 when Martha was doing a lot of ministry because she was ministering to Christ who was in her house. Martha was and Mary was seated at the Lord’s feet., listening to his word and Martha compared the two and said, “You tell my sister to stop that and help me” and Jesus said something very interesting that he said then and he says today, “Martha, you’re bothered about so many things, but really, only one thing is necessary. One thing. And, Mary has chosen the good part which will never be taken away from her. Mary has chosen. Something that every leader has to choose that won’t be forced on them, it will become optional, but you must choose it. One thing is necessary. Jesus said it, not me. I would repeat that, though, and say to all the leaders that one thing is most necessary. Be seated at the Lord’s feet, listening to his word on a daily basis. It will help you; will be the starting point of health and restoration in anything that we go through, deep or wide.

Justin: Thank you for being on the show, Wayne. I love the book, Leading on Empty by Wayne Cordeiro. I would highly recommend it. You can pick it up on Amazon.com. Stay tuned for more episodes of Innovate 4 Jesus coming soon.
Wayne: Thank you.

About Wayne Cordeiro

Wayne Cordeiro is the founding pastor of New Hope Christian Fellowship in Honolulu, Hawaii with over 14,500 in weekend attendance. New Hope is also listed as one of the top ten most innovative churches in America with Outreach Magazine listing them as one of the “top five churches to learn from.” New Hope is known for redeeming the arts and technology. Over 3000 attending services each week via the Internet. New Hope has seen over 73,000 first time decisions in Hawaii since its inception 26 years ago.

Wayne is a church planter at heart with over 108 churches planted in the Pacific Rim countries of the Philippines, Japan, Australia and Myanmar. Nationally, he has planted churches in Hawaii, California, Montana, Washington, and Nevada.

He has recently accepted the role as President over his alma mater, Eugene Bible College, now known as New Hope Christian College. NHCC is now part of a consortium of Pacific Rim Christian Colleges with locations in Hawaii, Oregon, Myanmar, and Tokyo.

He has authored ten books, including such classics as Doing Church as a Team, Dream Releasers, Seven Rules of Success, Attitudes That Attract Success, Divine Mentor, Leading on Empty and The Encore Church. Wayne is also the author of the Life Journal, which is being used by thousands of churches worldwide, is bringing people back to the Word of God.
Pastor Wayne and his wife, Anna, have three married children and four grandchildren. His hobbies include music, reading, water sports, and riding his Harley Davidson. Wayne and Anna now split their time between Hawaii and Eugene, Oregon where they have a family farm. There he leads New Hope Christian College, writes, and enjoys spending time with his grandchildren.

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